Chat 8: Mahabharata
--- Wed Mar 2 2005
Topic changed on #2111web by DWROB!DWROB@192.168.1.10: Mahabharata
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<beta> how'd ya'll like the reading?
<theta> it sucked
<theta> couldn't pronounce the names ... so i named everyone myself ...
<theta> which made the forum topic and quiz that much harder ... cuz i didn't know who was who ...
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<beta> it wasn't so bad, just really, really long
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<KENNY> Everybody, I'm Kenny, Dr. Robinson's Graduate Assistant
<kappa> hello
<KENNY> hi
<beta> hi
<dalet> nice to meet ya
<epsilon> hi
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<sigma> hi
<upsilon> hi
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<KENNY> How did everyone find the readings?
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<dalet> hardest to date
<aleph> difficult
<beta> very long
<upsilon> it was pretty hard to read
<chi> hello
<gamma> confusing
<omicron> kinda hard to comprehend
<chi> long
<sigma> unenjoyable, compared to some of the others
<epsilon> kinda confusing
<dalet> the hardest part was deciphering the names
<kappa> interesting, but complex family relations
<phi> couldn't their names be bill and ted
<beta> i gave them nick names
<tau> i agree ... .the names were confusing
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<sigma> me too
<KENNY> yeah
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<KENNY> Family names: read the texts with Dr. Rob's genealogy
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<epsilon> i agree
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<KENNY> And I wanted to talk a little about the handouts first
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<chi> i did
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<dalet> where's the genealogy?
<KENNY> The defs of karma, dharma, etc.
<beta> that flow chart helped
<beta> too
<epsilon> on the forum page
<KENNY> To make the role of duty and fate in the text clearer
<he> on the diss. page
<dalet> i didn't find forum page
<vav> I couldn't get it to come up
<KENNY> xxxx: In the links
<KENNY> on the main page
<KENNY> Ok. With that, the readings will be much easier
<kappa> Yeah it helped
<KENNY> But you aren't too far behind cause a lot of people are struggling
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<vav> it is hard to read
<chi> yes
<KENNY> Karma=action
<eta> yes.. herd to keep up with all those names
<KENNY> Karma implies an actor and places responsibility solely on the actor.
<psi> yes
<dalet> i got that part
<chi> like "what goes around comes around"
<KENNY> Every human gets what he deserves according to karma
<psi> this story was very hard to read
<KENNY> So the trick is to control the manner in which you act
<vav> I got B. a lot better that Mah.
<tau> if u treat someone bad, u get treated bad
<kappa> Yeah, it is generally known as "what goes around comes around"
<dalet> self discipline and self control
<psi> gotta love karma
<rho> good karma bad karma
<KENNY> disc and controls are manners to control karma
<kappa> If you are good and moral, you will be treated decent and morally
<chi> that is why acting in an appropriate manner was a key theme
<beta> and it is supposed to advance him/her to the path to emancipation of the spirit
<KENNY> There is also reincarnation
<kappa> It seems to be more important to the Pandavas than the Kurus
<kappa> Is there a difference of religion there?
<beta> the Hindu's ultimate religious goal
<vav> Why were they fighting?
<aleph> they believed in the same gods
<chi> i like the idea of reincarnation
<tau> better be good in this life or you'll come back as a fly or something
<rho> what is done in this life determines what they become in the next life
<beta> yes
<KENNY> xxxx: The only difference I thought
<KENNY> Is that the Pandavas are the protagonists
<he> what determines what you will come back as
<kappa> alright
<KENNY> And the Kauravas are the antagonists
<rho> true
<sigma> over leadership?
<epsilon> yes
<KENNY> the Kauravas do not control the manner of their actions very well
<beta> nope
<kappa> They let everyone know how they feel, good or bad
<beta> they think they are bad to the cone
<epsilon> no
<beta> *bone
<chi> no they have low morals
<dalet> why did Duryod hate the Pandavas so much?
<KENNY> The Pandavas were exiled after the dice duel
<psi> they are very arrogant
<beta> jealousy
<lambda> no they don't
<yod> bout the land right?
<tau> cause they were getting more attention ( i think)
<vav> it was over their kingdom?
<psi> because he was jealous
<aleph> I thought they were going to become slaves because of the dice game
<chi> he was competitive
<psi> they had the nice worship center
<beta> they almost did
<KENNY> When they returned the Kauravas refused to allow them to.
<he> jealousy
<gamma> they were forced to gamble
<psi> and he declared solitary something
<beta> b/c of ancient traditions
<KENNY> Jealousy, competition, the kingdom
<psi> that is why they went to war
<psi> they came back after the 13 years
<chi> they liked their role as rulers and didn't want to give that up
<epsilon> that's why it was so important that he would risk all his possessions
<lambda> jealousy
<psi> they liked there kingdom
<tau> durod was a very jealous person and his uncle just egged him on
<psi> if you had something for 13 years i wouldn't want to give it back
<KENNY> Do you see why the dice duel is allowing fate to decide through dharma (duty)?
<beta> he didn't egg him on - he helped him cheat
<phi> he risked all that just for competition?
<dalet> no
<epsilon> yes
<kappa> Yes
<psi> he helped him cheat a lot
<sigma> yes
<beta> no, he had to b/c of tradition
<chi> yes
<psi> but he didn't have to play after the king gave it all back
<phi> yes
<iota> absolutely
<psi> he had to the first time
<kappa> it was Yuro's duty to accept any challenge and they took severe advantage of his inability to play well
<beta> yes
<psi> the second time he just got what he deserved
<he> i thought they were forced to play the game
<sigma> he risked it all because he was unaware that it would be an unfair match
<he> how could that contribute to karma
<chi> he felt that the outcome was his fate therefore he couldn't fight it
<beta> his duty
<gamma> he had to accept the challenge
<beta> exactly
<vav> it was over their kingdom?
<kappa> Duty plays a large role in Yuro's actions
<KENNY> Frye: He is taking action
<dalet> what does it have to do w/dharma
<KENNY> Karma=action
<he> ah
<epsilon> that's why he stakes everything
<beta> dharma=duty
<KENNY> yes
<lambda> did he have to take this action?
<sigma> but how was it his fate if he was intentionally cheated out of his possessions?
<epsilon> it was his duty
<KENNY> Dharma is duty
<chi> he will get what he deserves
<DWROB> Dharma==the rules of the game
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<eta> he lost them to a series of games tight? he probably wanted to win things back
<epsilon> what goes around comes around
<sigma> if the outcome was either deserved or unintentional, then it would seem to be fate.
<pi2> he needs to know when to cut your losses
<KENNY> Like Yudhisthira took part in the duel because of dharma
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<aleph> he shouldn't have played with fate - allowing fate to take action
<rho> his duty
<beta> it says on pg 955 "Y is obliged to play..one last time"
<GSUser> nick def
<pi2> he didn't want to play but dharma made it necessary that he did
<gamma> he was forced to make a choice that would have an effect either way
<mu> yes forced
<phi> what did he take away from that D guy? just that castle?
<pi2> but he did go a little far with it
<chi> he should have made his own fate
<psi> hey decided to play the last time
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<he> kinda saying you will all have to make a choice for yourself at least once
<beta> it says on pg 955 "Y is obliged to play..one last time"
<mu> tricked
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<epsilon> he was forced because that was his duty
<yod> was it something inside him that made him play?
<beta> it says on pg 955 "Y is obliged to play..one last time"
<eta> he was always ready for a gamble.. i think
<lambda> why is he obligated
<vav> yes
<KENNY> Ayer: Yes
<beta> it also says Y was against gambling
<epsilon> with all his possessions this time, that's risky
<sigma> thanks, we already saw about page 955
<KENNY> His duty
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<chi> yes it does
<epsilon> why was he willing to stake that?
<psi> i don't think it is anyone's duty to lose everything
<kappa> Dharma
<beta> he wasn't willing , he HAD to
<psi> he lost it all not just for him but also for his family
<dalet> Does Dharma lead to Karma?
<psi> He didn't HAVE to the second time
<chi> they cherish duty more then freedom
<DWROB> psi: It might be. If it is for you, that's just tough.
<KENNY> But he puts his duty above all else
<rho> duty above his belief
<epsilon> because of tradition?
<aleph> how can duty be related to gambling?
<beta> which is what they are supposed to do
<vav> why gamble you wife?
<KENNY> Duty is his belief
<kappa> Duty plays an extremely large role in his beliefs
<KENNY> She is property
<sigma> duty is the primary driving force in their society
<aleph> so it's his duty to gamble if someone challenges him?
<gamma> that is why he made the decision he did
<dalet> duty influences karma
<kappa> He acted proper according to his beliefs
<epsilon> oh that makes sense
<pi> i understand that he had to play but did he have to go as far with it as he did or did he just go over board?
<theta> I agree, but I also agree with aleph ... what does duty have to do with gambling?
<kappa> Their beliefs
<beta> yes, its his duty b/c of ancient tradition
<pi> duty to uphold tradition
<epsilon> that was their belief
<he> that was their tradition
<rho> it has to do with fate
<KENNY> xxxx: Fate is the outcome of the gambling
<beta> i agree with xxxx
<lambda> he has to do it because of tradition
<KENNY> It is fate, not that they are indifferent to what happens
<eta> ahhhhh that makes sense
<sigma> if a challenge arises (ex. gambling), then it is the duty of the challenged to go forth
<eta> if you lose, you were meant to lose
<chi> like arranged marriages are a duty
<DWROB> KENNY: well stated
<chi> they aren't't good but they are a duty
<aleph> so you couldn't control any of what happened?
<beta> that's what fate is
<kappa> How is Draupadi Y's property if she is also married to others?
<aleph> you were meant to lose everything to gambling
<beta> she is shared property
<pi> but if he was meant to lose then wouldn't he have lost in a fair game not a fixed one like the one he was involved in?
<epsilon> she is still apart of his property
<lambda> due to things you did in a past life you are meant to lose it all now?
<chi> she is shared, like family property
<dalet> if fate is the outcome of gambling,
<dalet> then the fate was chosen
<dalet> ?
<chi> but fate knew the game would be fixed
<chi> that too was fate
<beta> yeah
<KENNY> Did you pick up on some of the weapons being magical and the gods being in the war?
<rho> fate knows the end game
<kappa> Yes
<dalet> YES
<aleph> this story does not allow for free will of any kind
<eta> yes
<eta> the arrow that returned
<kappa> Several weapons were "won" from the gods by some of the competitors.
<epsilon> kinda
<chi> a little
<aleph> yes, different gods were on different sides
<sigma> yes
<beta> yes - sort of
<KENNY> That their is less separation between the physical and spiritual worlds for Hindu
<yod> kin folks on different sides
<KENNY> Partly because of reincarnation
<lambda> somewhat
<vav> the Bow was one of these weapons
<aleph> weren't some of the people in the story fathered by some gods?
<dalet> like Krishna
<epsilon> reincarnation
<chi> well in the battle of troy certain gods were on certain sides also
<rho> actually the ghost of ancestor live with the family
<sigma> the charioteer
<beta> i think some of them had god-fathers
<chi> can you be reincarnated as a god?
<dalet> i thought that was Buddhism
<KENNY> How is the god's role different/similar in M than it is in the Odyssey?
<aleph> the gods actually will fight
<sigma> if fate set out for you to be a god
<vav> hinder and help
<aleph> they also talk to each about fighting
<lambda> more direct impact
<kappa> They each seem to help the protagonist
<he> your fate is already know
<he> n
<chi> they gods take a more active role
<dalet> exactly. they are more involved in actually fighting, and taking sides
<iota> The gods help to lead the humans in the right direction
<rho> the gods can lose things
<KENNY> xxxx: Right
<beta> the Pandavas are divinely conceived, right?
<aleph> the encourage the war
<KENNY> How is Athena's role different than Krishna's?
<dalet> they don't seem as invincible
<sigma> Krishna and Athena remind me of one another
<kappa> Athena comes in to help more than one person.
<tau> Athena had to ask permission from her father
<pi> Athena gave T some motivation to find his pops
<KENNY> Or Zeus' from the Sun God when he gets Kunti to conceive?
<aleph> she is a guiding force for O
<beta> they seem alike in many ways
<iota> Athena helps Odysseus and his son'
<theta> they do act a lot alike
<pi> Krishna had to be a lot deeper and point out Arjuna's dharmatic duty
<beta> guiding force for their patrons
<epsilon> Athena's role was more prominent
<gamma> i thought they were similar as well
<kappa> Krishna seems to be strictly for Arjuna and indirectly helping everyone else, while Athena is there for Odysseus and Telemachus
<chi> Krishna guides, where as Athena was more demanding
<dalet> Krishna seems more involved in the actual physical part
<rho> O's protection from fate
<psi> they all are helping each other out
<KENNY> Athena is guided more by personal traits
<lambda> Krishna is more direct, Athena is more about getting the right path
<beta> that's b/c Krishna was a person, incarnate
<theta> Athena was a little more deceiving ... in her disguise
<he> Athena could be whoever she wanted
<psi> Athena also helped out more
<KENNY> Besides Zeus' will, she is guided by her own trickery, desire to help Od, etc.
<psi> she was there many times
<epsilon> Athena was more indirect
<KENNY> But Krishna is guided by duty
<epsilon> yes
<KENNY> Self-Discipline
<beta> ok, that makes sense
<KENNY> Fate
<phi> Athena showed up incognito, but Krishna goes as a real person because that is what he expects her to be
<chi> Athena did what she wanted with no real limits
<yod> always
<psi> she was a god
<psi> Krishna is a reincarnation
<beta> yeah, she didn't have as many rules to follow
<tau> a reincarnation of Vishnu, right?
<psi> she mostly set her own rules
<KENNY> More self guided action for Athena
<KENNY> Hurl: Right
<dalet> i do believe so.
<chi> exactly
<he> what determines how they are reincarnated
<epsilon> agree
<beta> their karma
<rho> behavior
<tau> the way they acted in their previous life
<eta> the life the lead i think
<aleph> how good they were
<beta> their actions
<kappa> Athena seems to do what she is wanting to do for personal reasons
<yod> their previous life's actions
<KENNY> Can you think of other ways that Hinduism and JC differ because of the Patriarchal system?
<psi> yea i bet is is what kind of life they led previously
<epsilon> karma
<dalet> Vishnu is the preserver god?
<beta> yes
<rho> the number of gods
<KENNY> Besides the additional self-responsibility
<epsilon> mono and poly theism
<eta> yes ... the many gods ... the way the gods speak to the people
<dalet> reincarnation
<lambda> Athena can do as she pleases, while Krishna has fate and duty leading essentially
<KENNY> They are polytheistic
<KENNY> But not in a western sense
<rho> what is right and what is wrong
<pi> karma dharma samsara ... none of these things show up in the JC but they are very important in Hinduism
<tau> in Christianity, you go to heaven, in Hinduism you try to achieve the perfect light (or something along those lines)
<dalet> the physical beings of the gods
<KENNY> There doesn't seem to be as much communication between gods in Hinduism
<chi> some ideas are similar
<kappa> reincarnation
<eta> but you still pretty much have to be a good person in both religions
<chi> Nirvana
<beta> emancipation of the spirit is their ultimate spiritual goal
<rho> yea in Hinduism you try to come back as a dog not a ant
<KENNY> Hall: How so?
<aleph> didn't they tell each other (the gods) that they would not fight each other, they would each fight one at a time?
<chi> they have different ideas of perfection
<lambda> the basic idea of being a good person is the same in both
<KENNY> Hall: Explain Nirvana
<tau> isn't nirvana what you are trying to achieve
<tau> the highest you can go
<def>
<rho> heaven
<eta> a state of being ... a gooood state of being
<aleph> isn't it the best state of being
<tau> you are just a light
<chi> do on to other ... , karma, they parallel each other
<KENNY> xxxx: Yes
<pi> a state of being when you have transcended from samsara
<rho> utopia
<dalet> is it a state of total enlightenment
<chi> Nirvana is reaching the greater light so to speak
<pi> the state of Buddha
<KENNY> Both renounce excesses, impulsive desire
<chi> it's finding the utopia in the end
<lambda> total enlightenment
<chi> it's a great achievement
<pi> transcendence from Samsara
<tau> its what u are ultimately trying to achieve
<dalet> what's the other word they used?
<phi> the great goal in life
<epsilon> accomplishment
<dalet> i think it starts w/a c when you are totally enlightened
<kappa> Renouncing desires such as wealth
<pi> moksha
<tau> and material things
<chi> yeah total enlightenment is a good way to put it
<KENNY> In BG, How does Krishna help Arjuna with his conflict with duty?
<dalet> he explains it as his dharma
<gamma> explains to him why he must fight
<vav> Tells him it is his duty
<KENNY> What is Arjuna's dilemma?
<eta> he tells him he is a warrior and must act as a warrior
<rho> tells him to fight
<chi> she supports him and guides him
<kappa> Explains he has a duty and it needs to get done
<aleph> he explains that action against his family is what will reward him in the end
<pi> dharma is more important in the long run because he is achieving something higher by fighting
<he> tells him to fight
<dalet> reincarnation
<gamma> it is family
<tau> Arj doesn't want to fight
<he> but he must fight
<iota> explains that it is his duty
<epsilon> explains why things are the way they are, his dharma or duty
<dalet> is his dilemma
<rho> its his duty
<kappa> Also explains how it won't really effect his next life because it is his duty
<tau> but, krs says he has to (dharma)
<KENNY> Duty--there's that word again
<beta> he doesn't want to fight but it is his duty
<KENNY> right
<eta> there ya go ...
<aleph> duty is what gets you better off in the next life
<pi> he thinks killing his cousins will affect him negatively in his next life -- bad karma
<lambda> his his duty is his dilemma
<dalet> because of his caste, he wont be punished
<KENNY> He doesn't worry as much about the "fruits of his actions"
<KENNY> According to Krishna
<pi> but Krishna lets him know that that's not true, in this situation fighting is actually good karma
<dalet> Arj wont be punished because of his caste
<beta> so dharma is more important than karma?
<aleph> doing one's duty is good karma
<chi> he doesn't want to sin, similar to JC beliefs
<dalet> evidently
<pi> no but dharma affects karma
<pi> killing his cousins might seem like bad karma but because of dharma its actually good karma
<KENNY> xxxx:right
<def> dharma is a reflection of karma
<def> or is it the other way around
<tau> aren't they equally important? ... they rely on each other
<eta> confusing
<epsilon> other way
<dalet> seems messed up either way it goes
<KENNY> Brahman I think relates to the manner in which you perform action
<chi> they are interwoven
<KENNY> You pray
<KENNY> meditate
<KENNY> have self-discipline
<pi> fighting might seem like a bad thing right? something that would bring bad karma. But because it is his duty to fight, he is preserving dharma by fighting which results in good karma
<aleph> i thought it was a caste you were born into
<kappa> It is also apparent to live up to your word regardless of how cruel it is (drinking of the blood)
<KENNY> try to align yourself with the Universal spirit
<chi> self-discipline is lacking now a days
<kappa> Remove yourself from wants and become extremely disciplined
<dalet> true, the discipline part is good
<KENNY> In the end, he explains he didn't swallow the blood
<kappa> I know
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<tau> can you be reincarnated after you reach nirvana?
<KENNY> Another similarity between jc and Hinduism is--
<kappa> but he lived up to his promise
<epsilon> yes
<KENNY> Inaction is bad
<KENNY> sinful
<dalet> reaping in JC, karma in Hinduism
<chi> like Jonah
<KENNY> Action is the goal
<pi> if you are incarnate and have achieved nirvana you are a Buddha
<kappa> Action is important
<KENNY> in a disciplined manner
<psi> important
<KENNY> Think of Gandhi
<dalet> the seed you sow u reap
<lambda> the right actions are important
<pi> the Gita was his main religious text right?
<aleph> self sacrifice
<KENNY> The intro mentioned how he read the BG and applied it to modern times
<KENNY> I believe so
<chi> by fasting
<psi> fasting
<vav> by no violence
<he> none violence
<epsilon> peaceful approach
<aleph> depriving yourself of pleasure will reap the most rewards in spirit
<beta> So Brahma is the power that brings changes to the physical universe and atman is the change to the spiritual universe
<rho> then again, all religions are true
<chi> fasting is nonviolence
<KENNY> Take your good questions about Hinduism to Dr. Rob. He knows more than I do.
<dalet> This is said in JC but mostly in worship form
<KENNY> How does Arjuna respond to Krishna revealing himself in divine form?
<dalet> scared
<dalet> him
<KENNY> Keep this in mind ... compare to Athena revealing herself to Odysseus
<epsilon> frightened
<chi> shock
<rho> ah
<psi> shocked
<vav> in awe
<aleph> he shows him something that scared him
<eta> yes xxxx
<tau> agree with hall
<he> in aww
<kappa> He is shocked
<eta> shock
<gamma> shocked
<aleph> Athena was always careful to conceal herself
<beta> awe
<psi> very shocked
<kappa> but eventually comes around when changes back
<epsilon> ya shock, in aww
<KENNY> And remember it when we read Divine Comedy for when Dante experiences God
<psi> yep
<lambda> shock
<KENNY> Ahhh
<KENNY> Awe
<eta> but telem.. knew that it was really Athena i think
<def> shocked
<KENNY> Awe with Arjuna
<dalet> I thought he was more scared
<beta> he was probably thankful though
<KENNY> Awe with the gods with less selfish motivations
<vav> Why did he reveal himself?
<epsilon> yes
<chi> i would have been honored
<he> to honor him
<chi> for fun
<KENNY> xxxx: To help Arjuna in his faith
<dalet> K said he didn't reveal himself often
<chi> i would if i were a god, to see the look on people's faces
<KENNY> To show Arjuna his devotion to Krishna
<vav> that helps, thanks
<KENNY> And importance of devotion to karma, dharma, etc.
<KENNY> page 1027
<dalet> K said he never exposed himself to none but Ar
<KENNY> To grace you, Arjuna,
<KENNY> I revealed through self-discipline my higher form
<rho> proof of existence
<KENNY> which no one but you has ever beheld
<KENNY> He may also be getting closer to Nirvana too
<dalet> oh
<dalet> Ar is reaching Nirvana
<KENNY> Because Krishna says he gives Arjuna the divine eye or something
<KENNY> so he can see his true form
<rho> most prophets in other religions have the same experience
<chi> devotion
<vav> didn't other gods wish to have this eye thing
<chi> anyone there?
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<beta> obviously A is favored by K
<KENNY> yes
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<KENNY> Looking for the quote
<KENNY> probably
<dalet> because of his devotion, A saw K in this rare form
<beta> agreed, K calls A "great hero"
<epsilon> his self discipline
<KENNY> Part of seeing Krishna shows the non-separation with physical and spiritual in Hindu
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<KENNY> He tells Arjuna to see all the universe when he sees him
<epsilon> ahh
<psi> ok
<sigma> right
<chi> cool
<beta> complete and total enlightenment
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<dalet> So, Arj was in Nirvana?
<iota> i think he was
<dalet> no
<lambda> Arj found inner peace?
<KENNY> Dunno
<yod> apparently so
<dalet> LOL
<KENNY> Just suggesting he might be closer to it
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<dalet> Dr. Rob., where are U?
<KENNY> Going back to the Mahabharata ...
<dalet> please don't
<KENNY> DWROB---Do you know how Nirvana fits in with Arjuna and Krishna?
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<vav> no answer
<chi> i think he is closer to Nirvana but not there yet
<beta> looks like we are on our own
<psi> so i guess we can go out now to the bars right
<KENNY> yep
<vav> define Nirvana
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<psi> a band
<KENNY> Hall: I agree
<dalet> i guess it's time to go to bed. what bars in Statesboro?
<kappa> moving closer is better than nothing
<tau> universal truth ... the highest you can go
<eta> yes
<beta> agreed xxxx
<dalet> u r not in Buckhead
<def> legends is free until 11:00
<pi> i am
<def> i know
<KENNY> xxxx: Stay on task please
<def> that's why i go to gsu
<KENNY> Everyone
<KENNY> page 984-985
<vav> what paragraph
<KENNY> Duryodhana hisses like a serpent
<kappa> Showing he is evil like the one in Genesis
<KENNY> 984 last p
<psi> go to sky
<KENNY> 985 first p
<psi> or nickel
<KENNY> described as a wicked prince
<beta> well he is isn't he?
<KENNY> Those appealing to him describe his actions as poisonous
<chi> wicked=serpent
<pi> their half brother Vidura wheezes like a snake on 969
<dalet> the symbolism of the hissing is important
<eta> i think so
<aleph> he refuses to see things any other way
<KENNY> sinful
<epsilon> wicked
<KENNY> definitely
<aleph> snake always describes someone evil
<beta> agreed
<mu> a snake is like a symbol of evil
<pi> yeah Duryodhana is a mean, ill spirited, jealous, cheating, lying, dick
<chi> i love the idea of poisonous actions
<lambda> is this where the bible took the snake tempting eve
<chi> wow
<pi> that's how stds are transmitted
<KENNY> It suggests their is a common source or reason that both eastern and western faiths assoc evil with snakes
<KENNY> poison
<pi> no this was written after genesis
<dalet> stay on subject
<pi> snakes freak people out
<aleph> because they usually could kill people back then
<dalet> it seem divine why people are so afraid of snakes
<chi> not all people
<dalet> i know, but many are
<sigma> xxxx: can't they still kill people?
<KENNY> I don't have the answer, I'm just giving food for thought
<KENNY> Certain common traits are also seen bad in both
<epsilon> they represent evil because they kill
<KENNY> self-restraint=good
<aleph> yes, but we have anti-venom now
<dalet> sneaky
<pi> over in India the snakes are all incredibly poisonous
<KENNY> gluttony, excess=bad
<KENNY> etc
<beta> anti-venom - that's always good
<KENNY> DWROB may know of a more definite reason
<sigma> in the southwest U.S. maybe
<kappa> If you can't control yourself why should you be given control over a group of people
<aleph> in a lot of places
<dalet> it's after 9pm
<vav> isn't gluttony one of the seven sins or something to that nature?
<eta> yes
<dalet> yes
<pi> in Catholicism
<dalet> seven deadly sins
<vav> what are the other 6
<tau> sloth
<pi> go rent the movie 7
<dalet> envy, sloth
<epsilon> yes
<KENNY> avarice and greed
<epsilon> greed
<dalet> gluttony
<chi> pride
<dalet> vanity
<theta> lust
<pi> good job guys
<vav> some of these are in both stories, right
<def> lust
<KENNY> Any more questions about the M and BG?
<kappa> nope
<KENNY> Reread them if you need to
<dalet> will do
<eta> probably do need to
<theta> most definitely
<pi> they are all basic things that lead to degradation of the spirit and disconnection from a higher being, that's why most religions have adopted the same basic habits as sins
<vav> I will have too
<chi> nope
<chi> ok
<KENNY> There will be a test
<yod> wow xxxx
<vav> I might understand them better now ... I hope
<KENNY> xxxx: Thanks
<vav> on which.
<chi> what test?
<beta> what test? when?
<dalet> the chat helped a lot
<KENNY> final
<KENNY> The Final
<KENNY> due
<KENNY> duh
<epsilon> huh
<sigma> where?
<dalet> i thought there was a test b4 the final
<KENNY> The one at the end of the semester
<chi> there is
<epsilon> why are we talking about that now
<dalet> suggesting we better know our stuff
<KENNY> 3-31
<sigma> what wer does
<vav> bc we can look forward to it
<epsilon> oh i got confused for a second
<eta> good times
<KENNY> Mar 31
<epsilon> so our next test is the 31
<KENNY> ok
<KENNY> Sorry
<pi> even though this was the hardest thing to read so far the eastern religions i find the most interesting
<KENNY> Good Night